More 911 Fan Shroud Conversion Stuff

Friday, 14-Jul-2000 15:13:26

Message:

207.191.66.157 writes:

With all this talk about this conversion, better cooling, and a more efficient means of cooling, you've got my interest up. In checking out the website for the BAS version, and comparing it to the one Bergmann is making, for what can been seen on a PC monitor, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference. I also called FAT Performance today (714-637-2889), and was told that they no longer import the BAS version, that they simply copied it, and now sell their own version (much like Bergmann did).

Someone claimed that the Bergmann unit wasn't as quality of a unit as the BAS. Does anyone have the details on why this might be?

If you haven't been there, check out both for comparison at:

http://www.ahnendorp.com/beetle2.html (for BAS)

and

http://www.bergmannvw.com/911kits.htm (for Bergmann)

Very interested and curious???

Jim

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Replies:

Re: More 911 Fan Shroud Conversion Stuff (Steve Arndt) (14-Jul-2000 15:39:39)

I like the integral oil filler neck on the mounting stand of the B.Berg or should I say immitation Oliver Knuf unit versus the 2-piece BAS unit I have now. Where does California Import Parts get theirs from?? (n/t) (Derrick from NC) (14-Jul-2000 15:47:08)

My Power Tuning Parts catalog has separate part numbers for all the components. Maybe you could buy the filler neck/stand and make it work with your setup? (n/t) (Steve Arndt) (14-Jul-2000 15:50:01)

What's the best way to contact Oliver Knuf? E-Mail, Phone, Snail Mail? (n/t) (Jim) (14-Jul-2000 16:04:26)

Check your mail. (n/t) (Steve Arndt) (14-Jul-2000 16:11:37)

Thanks Steve! (n/t) (Jim) (14-Jul-2000 16:25:04)

Hey Steve, could you email me the BAS contact info too? Thanks... (n/t) (george brown) (14-Jul-2000 16:37:47)

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Re: More 911 Fan Shroud Conversion Stuff

Friday, 14-Jul-2000 12:39:39

207.70.63.165 writes:

I mentioned the Bergmann unit I think. You can contact Oliver Knuf directly for more information about what is wrong with the way BB copied their design (besides the fact they copied it, I mean the actual design). Oliver mentioned something if I remember right about them adding heater ducts in the wrong spot or something. . ?

I don't note many facts about the Type 1 cooling shrouds because I have been on a quest for more Type IV info for a year.

I already have my 11 blade, 75 amp alt, shell, and pulley. I can't wait to hear it wirrrr!!

Steve Arndt

Hey Derrick from North Carolina... Friday, 14-Jul-2000 09:38:15 Message: 198.23.5.8 writes: Where did you get your BAS fan setup? Do you have any ordering info? Thanks... george brown

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Replies:

I'm not Derrick but. . . (Steve Arndt) (14-Jul-2000 10:04:28)

I purchased the BAS setup many years ago thru FAT. I think the units available now have a improved oil fill setup. I think the number of FAT is (704 637-2889). Is this correct Steve?? (n/t) (Derrick from NC) (14-Jul-2000 10:35:46)

I don't know the number. I am at work, my catalog is at home in my Library. (n/t) (Steve Arndt) (14-Jul-2000 11:59:40)

Re: Check out California Import Parts, see Hot VW's they have a 911 fan kit almost identical to BAS. (n/t) (Darren) (14-Jul-2000 11:05:55)

www.ahnendorp.com They will ship to you. Got lots of stuff from them shippied to Canada. (n/t) (Alex) (14-Jul-2000 12:03:52) "Found www.ahnendorp.com (BAS) but couldn't load down the site due to errors. Anyone have their email or mailing address? (n/t) (george brown) (14-Jul-2000 13:21:51)

Email me George. I will send you their email address. (n/t) (Alex) (14-Jul-2000 14:46:42)

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I'm not Derrick but. . . Friday, 14-Jul-2000 10:04:28 207.70.63.165 writes: BAS has a website. http://www.ahnendorp.com FAT Performance sells the BAS shroud. (says my 96 catalog anyway). I also have information as to where you can find a nice used 11 blade, shell, alt, pulley, etc. Steve Arndt

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Porsche style cooling fan Thursday, 13-Jul-2000 15:04:08 Message: 129.252.74.63 writes: No, it's not true cal-look but what do you guys think about the Porsche style cooling fan set-up. Do they require more horsepower than stock to run? What size crank pulley is run, most Porsche engines look like it might be a 1:1 ratio, is that right? Who makes the best quality shrouds? I know the off-road guys like them, would they make a hot street engine a better freeway cruiser? Thanks for the input. Jeff B.

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Replies:

Re: The Porsche cooling set up uses less h.p. than the stock set up,I dont know where you are but i belive B.A.S.in Germany make the best kits(hope this helps) (n/t) (Rob Tomlinson) (13-Jul-2000 15:11:49)

I have the BAS kit sitting in the corner of my garage waiting for the completion of my 2332 turbo EFI engine. Also 75amp Porsche alternator and 11-blade fan. I hear the one B.Bergmann sells is nice & is manufactured over in Europe somewhere. (n/t) (Derrick from NC) (13-Jul-2000 15:18:57)

. I hear the one B.Bergmann sells . . (Steve Arndt) (13-Jul-2000 15:34:20)

Rob, I am wondering how a fan which moves (I have heard this number) 38% more air than the doghouse fan require less horsepower? I would think it would require more horsepower. I am sure it isn't a linear relationship with the CFM and horsepower, but less? (n/t) (Steve Arndt) (13-Jul-2000 15:36:12)

The key is efficiency (Bruce Tweddle) (13-Jul-2000 15:50:22)

Yeah but. . . (Steve Arndt) (13-Jul-2000 16:32:13)

Re: Porsche style cooling fan (13-Jul-2000 15:45:16)

Re: Re: Porsche style cooling fan (Derrick from NC) (13-Jul-2000 15:52:15)

I have heard that the Porsche fan will cause uneven cooling of the cylinders when used on a VW engine. Any truth to this? You also can't use the stock oil cooler right? (n/t) (Louis Brooks) (13-Jul-2000 15:59:29)

Some truth. . . (Steve Arndt) (13-Jul-2000 16:34:43) It is possible to use the stock oil cooler (Bruce Tweddle) (13-Jul-2000 17:05:59)

Re: So why isn`t a porsche fan CAL-LOOK?? ( Mark H) (13-Jul-2000 17:01:35)

You know...(Way off topic) (Louis Brooks) (13-Jul-2000 17:20:23)

I agree, it has to use more HP to run! It is moving more air. (n/t) (Steve Arndt) (14-Jul-2000 10:37:49)

Hey Louis, whats wrong with Pnk Ovals w/ whale tales. Now thats Cal Look. (n/t) (Marty) (13-Jul-2000 17:37:24)

Re: NO ,thats the Kansas-Look! sorry Kansas guys. Now i`ll get blasted from the midwest:-) (n/t) ( Mark H) (13-Jul-2000 18:30:38)

Not a thing. If it turns you on, do it. Its your car. Just as long as you are happy thats what is important. Its just this formula stuff that bothers me. (n/t) (Louis Brooks) (13-Jul-2000 19:08:08)

Whats the SSB? Tijuana look? :{] (n/t) (Marty) (13-Jul-2000 19:20:31)

Re: No the SSB is a POS that has the Tijauana guys feelin sorry for me. ;{I ( Mark H) (13-Jul-2000 19:43:37)

MORE AIR FLOW< LESS HP LOSS, resons, efficiency. If you crack the books open, a standard cooling fan, if it was made with todays technology, will only produce a max efficiency of 60% So you can assume that these old ones produce about 50% or less. The Porsche has on the other hand have an efficiency of up to 75%. So basically, for the same air delivery, the porsche fan requires 33% less HP. (n/t) (Tony Z) (13-Jul-2000 20:09:19)

Hold on a Minute. . . (Steve Arndt) (14-Jul-2000 10:43:07)

Porsche fan=axial flow. VW fan=centrifugal flow. Look at the first stage of any large jet engine. Looks alot like a Porsche fan. Axial flow is more efficient for producing volume. N/T (n/t) (Super Freak) (14-Jul-2000 01:57:36)

. I hear the one B.Bergmann sells . . Thursday, 13-Jul-2000 15:34:20 207.70.63.165 writes: I do not have all the details from our Man Oliver. I think this is how it went. Bergmann bought one Fan setup from Oliver Knuf and was going to become a distributor. Bergmann pulled a quick one and copied Knuf's engineering and now calls it "their exclusive design". I would go for the real deal, and skip BB from what I've heard. The FAT catalog lists the Ahnendorp BAS shroud setup. I am buying my 911 cooling setup for my engine directly from Oliver Knuf. Steve Arndt

The key is efficiency Thursday, 13-Jul-2000 15:50:22 207.102.98.188 writes: It is a much more efficient design. Its like bigger cars than a Bug can get better mileage due to a more efficient aerodynamic shape. Bruce Tweddle

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Yeah but. . . Thursday, 13-Jul-2000 16:32:13 207.70.63.165 writes: Bigger cars that are more aerodynamic are moving less air, hence less drag. The Porsche fan is moving more air, it should take more power. I don't think air cares how it is scooped up and moved. Steve Arndt

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Some truth. . . Thursday, 13-Jul-2000 16:34:43 207.70.63.165 writes: You must use a full flow cooling setup and block the stock cooler location off. I don't think the fan would cause un-equal cooling. A poor designed fan SHROUD and bottom tins might though. Steve Arndt

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It is possible to use the stock oil cooler Thursday, 13-Jul-2000 14:05:59 207.102.98.188 writes: All you need is a custom adaptor to lay the cooler across the top of the case towards the right side. I have seen such an adaptor. Bruce Tweddle

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Re: So why isn`t a porsche fan CAL-LOOK?? Thursday, 13-Jul-2000 17:01:35 216.244.13.117 writes: I`ve been building cal look cars since the 70s and I`ve never seen any rules for fan shrouds :-) People used to use aluminium slant shrouds alot But then the wised up. If people want to stay with original cal look then they should think about running a slant shroud with a rapid cool oil cooler bolted to the intake so you can have lots of oil leaks ,your car can overheat(Guaranteed),and you`ll never get to the engine mount bolts! I guess my point is that Cal-look cars were VWs that were modified to perform better. Lets keep modifying. A 911 shroud sounds way better to me but I can`t imagine it not using a little more HP to run it. Mark H

Hold on a Minute. . . Friday, 14-Jul-2000 10:43:07 207.70.63.165 writes: The fan most of use are talking about here is the 11 blade fan off an early 911. This is hardly a fan made with "todays technology"! The 11 blade was out on the market a few years before the dog house fan! It is a more efficient design, but I think that is because it is bigger. I understand very little about fluid flow dynamics. I ask John C. when I have a question there. Once I get this damn engineering degree in 5 years I'll know WHY the 11 blade is better besides because it is bigger. Steve Arndt