Web cams vs Engle cams

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 00:13:12

4.54.179.156 writes:

Which cam is the best as far as quality and durability.It seems as though people are steering away from the engle cams.After talking to Don Bullita at the Classic he told me about the results from a cam run in at the bergs shop.It seems as though the cam started to flake off material on the lobes.Has anyone sent there cams to the Bergs to have it run in or is this a service that they only offer on the cams they sell.Either way its got me looking twice at my engle cam :/

Shane Gans

Message thread:

Web cams vs Engle cams (Shane Gans) (29-Jun-2000 00:13:12) 

Re: Had 1 Engle FK87 go flat, 1 Berg 311 lose a lobe (completely) and nothing but success with Web Cams. I'm convinced. (Jim Ratto) (29-Jun-2000 01:10:40)

Re: Web cams vs Engle cams...both companies have good grinds. Run it! (n/t) (29-Jun-2000 01:18:18)

Re: I'm curious how many berg cams have problems (9 out of 10)? Do you think that it has anything to do with offset grinding them to clear big cranks? (n/t) (John) (29-Jun-2000

01:22:39)

Re: Shane if you worry too much your cam will go flat no matter which one you use. :-) ... ( Mark H) (29-Jun-2000 06:06:32)

Say More (Louis Brooks) (29-Jun-2000 11:41:02)

Re: Let me clarify (Shane) (29-Jun-2000 13:07:06)

Re: Shane ,I don`t know what else to say... ( Mark H) (29-Jun-2000 13:26:44)

Re: Re: Thanks Mark (Shane) (29-Jun-2000 14:23:03)

Re: Re: There you go, Shane. Your motor is gunna run sweet!! (n/t) ( Mark h) (29-Jun-2000 19:11:06)

The cam Shane is talking about... (Don Bulitta) (29-Jun-2000 15:00:46)

Re: Hey Don (Shane) (29-Jun-2000 15:12:18)

Re: Re: Hey Don (Don Bulitta) (29-Jun-2000 16:13:51)

Re: I don`t doubt U Don... ( Mark H) (29-Jun-2000 19:27:24)

I bought an Engle V-26 from Bergs complete with the break-in process; so far, so good! (n/t) (Craig Merrow) (29-Jun-2000 20:12:10)

Re: Re: What lifters do you use Mark?? (n/t) (Shane) (29-Jun-2000 21:12:28)

Re: Web cams vs Engle cams (29-Jun-2000 16:07:45)

More.. (John Connolly) (29-Jun-2000 16:22:48)

Re: They are all made out of the same shite, so whether you've had a Berg, Engle or Web go flat wasn't down to the grinder. Try a steel billet and lighten the valve train and then use some softer springs. (n/t) (max, Der Bahnstormerz) (29-Jun-2000 19:29:30)

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e: Had 1 Engle FK87 go flat, 1 Berg 311 lose a lobe (completely) and nothing but success with Web Cams. I'm convinced.

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 01:10:40

205.188.192.46 writes:

I know someone that has lost a few Engles over at Bergs, both on the dyno and on their break-in machine. I don't think it is Berg's fault. Cam gremlins? When building the engines I had problems with, I followed the instructions supplied. With the Web Cam, I pre-ran in the cam in my own break in fixture before I put it in my motor. Shane, I highly doubt you will have a cam problem with the springs Jeff used in your heads. (Same as mine). Let me know if you want some more info.

take care,

Jim Ratto

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e: Shane if you worry too much your cam will go flat no matter which one you use. :-) ...

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 06:06:32

209.179.227.46 writes:

I have never had a cam go flat . I use mostly Engles. Most people Ive talked to about any cam going flat usually had un godly amounts of spring pressure. I know I will probably piss some people off by saying this but hey what the heck, The bergs recommend way more spring pressure than most people do. I want to say more but I won`t.

All I can say is that most "flat cam" stories lead back to one place. The place that worries the most about flat cams. If you put your motor together to the best of your ability then have a little faith. Don`t start second guessing yourself. Your parts are fine. Have fun.

Mark H

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y More

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 11:41:02

209.73.251.2 writes:

Hi Mark H,

First let me state that this post is not supposed to start any mudslinging. I just want to know the whole story. I have seen you make a couple of comments on this board about the Bergs. I have not been on this board enough to know the history here. Would you be willing to email me some of your observations, reservations, concerns about this issue? I just want to know both sides of the story. Thanks, and keep posting. You always have good advice to give.

Louis Brooks

Louis Brooks

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Re: Let me clarify

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 13:07:06

4.4.165.83 writes:

I have the upmost respect for the bergs.My Question was the quality of engle cams.I was just curious if the Bergs have stumbled on a problem with them or if it was an isolated case.

I have plans on letting them run my engle cam in for me before intallation but after what i heard at the classic I was wondering If I should use a different cam.

Shane

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Re: Shane ,I don`t know what else to say...

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 13:26:44

209.179.227.24 writes:

Engle cams are fine. web cams are fine . People like to gab and people love tragedies. You will have problems if you buy into this

bullcrap.

Mark H

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Re: Re: Thanks Mark

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 14:23:03

4.4.165.65 writes:

I was just curious.No part is bullet proof Im probably just being overly cautious.Denham put dual springs on my heads ( you were right did want to put triples on them)and the seat pressure is conservitave.I should quit sweating the small stuff.

Thanks again!

Shane

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The cam Shane is talking about...

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 15:00:46

129.239.209.215 writes:

was an Engle K8 and it had 7800 miles on it when I tore the engine down for another problem. I hadn't noticed anything with the cam, but on inspection the tipe of the lobes were starting to go away and the Scat lifters were badly pitted (perhaps causing the cam wear).

The cam had been run in on the Berg fixture. This was not my imagination it was real. I am now running a Web cam 86b. Zero miles at this point so we will just have to wait and see. The 7800 miles was done in about 6 months so I drive it a little more than some. By the way I am running Berg double springs(vw size). At this point I don't knwo what all this means but the Web cam survived the break-in fixture at the Bergs now we just have to see how it lasts over time. I will be dialing the lift at the valve each time I do a valve adjust. I will early on check it at 1k mile intervals. I know that some say it's a hoax, but it happened to me and I believe it. DB

Don Bulitta

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Re: Hey Don

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 15:12:18

4.4.165.65 writes:

Hey Don

Did anyone give any explaination as to why the cam gave way except for maybe the pitted lifters.I am just trying to cover my butt before I zip this motor up.

Do you think it would be wise for me to have my cam ran in before i install it

Thanks Shane

Shane

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Re: Re: Hey Don

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 16:13:51

129.239.209.215 writes:

Shane, Clyde told me that the cams that gave them the most greif were the K8 and the 110 two of the most popluar grinds. I don't know if it's the cam profile or what. He also said that they made the most noise in the fixture. Andy checks everything when they put a cam in the fixture. They measure each lob for total lift and taper. They have found many that were ground WRONG. They said that the surface of the cam lobe was not parallel with the centerline of the cam which would cause the lifter to ride on the edge of the cam and cause premature failure. They have seem problems with almost all lifters pitting but the Scat seemed the worst. I now have a set of Scat lifters that look very go so go figure. These were run in with my Web 86b. To answer your question, I would use a cam that was run in.

Just remember that it is no gaurantee. My failed cam had been run in. Andy did say that they used to make lifters a little differently than they are today and that might contribute to it. You should probably talk with Clyde or Andy at the Bergs. They really worked with me and it was getting very frustrating for them and me. DB

Don Bulitta

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Re: I don`t doubt U Don...

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 19:27:24

216.244.14.161 writes:

I`m sure what your saying happened to you exactly as you stated. And there are others who have genuinely had cams go flat. But I don`t think it has to do with the cam itself. as you stated with your own cam problem ,the lifters were pitted. I stopped using scat lifters because of this exact problem. And it isn`t a problem that shows up every so offen. Scat lifters almost always come back out of a motor with pits! I`m sure this has something to do with their commitment to QUALITY?? Anyway i`ve sold and personaly used many many parts over the years and there is plenty of junk out there but ENGLE cams are not part of it. One last thing about Berg cams. I know they sell there own cam designs that are ground by Engle and are different but similar to standard Engle grinds but does Berg sell the Standard Engle grinds at all??

Mark H

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Re: Web cams vs Engle cams

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 16:07:45

204.146.144.1 writes:

Shane, the pitted lifters comes from too much heat. In outher words , the engine is running too hot. I have a friend that works at one of the best engine builders in the world. We have talked about flat cams over and over again. It is no lie, cams go flat, I have had 3 go bad.

Run about 175lbs seat pressure, 300 lbs at full lift.

Fill the engine 1 quart over full of oil, and hope for the best. Then engles and webs come from the same billet. Good luck!!!

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More..

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 16:22:48

216.190.9.54 writes:

though the billets may start the same (I don't know one way or the other), I know that your chances are around 5-10X better if you have a Web than an Engle. Ever degree them in? You never know what you'll end up with when using an Engle, and I've never seen a Web yet that wasn't nutz on. That tells me something about what they are doing WITH the billets. Measure the taper on the lobe; Engle are all over the place, Web is perfect every time.

I agree with a lot of what Mark said; I think some of the VW spring pressures are WAY out of hand. solving one problem while creating another isn't good engineering in my book (increasing spring pressures). My next engine will have fairly light springs; I'm

going to see what happens. The guys over on the other side of the pond are taking THIS approach (incredibly light components, like those 38g lifters, 6mm stem valves, etc), to combat valve float, instead of HUGE springs.

If you are still nervous, do what I'm doing on my new street engine; go with a Hard Weld. It's another $150 over the regular Web cam prices (around $80), but WILL NOT go flat, provided the clearances check out. I'll take the $150 hit vs. an engine teardown anyday.

John Connolly

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Re: I agree.....Web Cams degree in exact every time.....I have seen Engles out 4 DEGREES

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 21:49:16

152.163.195.192 writes:

I have degreed plenty of both. Never seen a Web off. I did see an FK10 out 4 degrees however.

I'm not saying "Don't use an Engle", I'm saying, check what you buy.

I still think spring pressure and rod side-clearance (tight) has something to do with my own cam failures of the past.

Shane, I think you will be fine.

You could also talk to Roger Crawford at Heads Up about lifters. Darrell and I were surprised by what we learned.

His # is 714-871-1940

:)

Jim Ratto

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I haven't had a problem with it (knock on wood)....

Thursday, 29-Jun-2000 21:36:31

216.190.8.226 writes:

I had a 110 go bad about 10 years ago after around 20K miles; valve lift was down to around .150" on a couple lobes.

I had one customer's Web go flat a couple months ago, and I GAVE him another one (warrantee), complete with lifters.

My street engine: it's a pretty warm grind, so I'm a little worried. I want to do just what you guys are doing, going way lighter on the springs and use Ti valves, and some other light parts in the valvetrain. I'm convinced the route of making everything stronger and heavier is past the point of doing the right thing!

John Connolly

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Anybody heard?

Tuesday, 29-Aug-2000 23:19:03

Message:

4.48.58.208 writes:

I heard recently that Engle K-8 cams are not surviving break-in. Has anybody else heard such?

I knew the Bergs were having trouble with camshaft break-in a few years ago, but I thought this was all behind us!

Chas

Chas

Click here to reply

Replies:

Haven't heard anything, but I'm a victim of a flat FK 8 (Bruce Tweddle) (30-Aug-2000 00:47:47)

Re: ever since the cams were made elsewhere I have heard of problems thats when I switched to Web cam unless you can get an old production Engle. (n/t) (E-Girl) (30-Aug-2000 02:55:19)

We only use Johnson lifers anymore with Engle cams because we started having problems with all their grinds. You can buy these lifters from, Scat, Bugpack, Webcam, and IAP. Good Luck!! (n/t) (30-Aug-2000 03:03:02)

Re: Anybody heard? (Don Bulitta) (30-Aug-2000 09:13:57)

Several pages in Bergs price list #86 dicussed the flat cam problem. One thing that was mentioned was possible changes were made to our oils. I just replaced a flat Engle V-26, this cam was purchased almost 20yrs ago but not ran that much. Bad batch of cams from 20yrs ago? I don't think so. It must be caused by something else. Has anyone given any thought to the effects of a straight-cut gearset? I mean if you can hear them outside the car when it's running, it must create some sort of vibration that travels thru the cam, lifters, etc. And we all run deep sumps, right?, and then lower the oil level slightly. All that oil flying around in there it seems hard to believe it's a lack of lubrication. ARE the cams being made different or is it something else? Food for thought... (n/t) (George Wells) (30-Aug-2000 12:06:37)

Straight cut gears should not cause a problem, they've been in use for years, and wouldn't respond much differently than a timing chain set-up on a V8. Modern oils have more film strength and "lubricity", and "break down" more slowly than the oils of 15 or 20 years ago. Excessive valve spring pressure, incorrect heat treatment (lifter and/or camshaft), wrong radius on lifter contact surface, excessive clearance in the lifter bores ("rocking") are the main causes of excessive cam wear. (n/t) (george brown) (30-Aug-2000 13:03:29)

When I was at the Bergs earlier in the year... (Don Bulitta) (30-Aug-2000 14:42:12)

The lifter problem has to center around the manufacturing process, e.g., materials and heat treating. Fords, Chevs, and Mopars don't seem to be having as many cam/lifter problems as VW's, so maybe they're getting better goods. Has anyone had their lifters cryo'd? The 300 below treatment is supposed to provide an improved surface hardness; by the way, Parkerizing is a surface treatment that won't do much for your cam lobes except make them look neat and keep them from rusting in their original packaging. (n/t) (george brown) (30-Aug-2000 14:54:41)

What is the difference between work hardening and parkerizing? (n/t) (Steve Arndt) (30-Aug-2000 15:22:21)

Parkerizing is actually an etching process that puts micropores into the surface to hold oil. Without it, the lobe would be wiped flat in seconds. (n/t) (Mike Lawless) (30-Aug-2000 22:14:54)

Parkerizing is a corrosion resistant finishing process developed for and used by the military on small arms and various steel items; there is some etching of the metal surface involved in the process. "Work hardening" is due to high levels of friction between the surfaces of two parts, so it's a kind of in-process heat treatment. (n/t) (george brown) (31-Aug-2000 10:26:11)

Re: I build many motors, I don`t use SCAT lifters and I use Engle,Web and CB cams and I`ve had none go flat...ever. (n/t) ( Mark H) (31-Aug-2000 13:59:58)

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Haven't heard anything, but I'm a victim of a flat FK 8

Wednesday, 30-Aug-2000 00:47:47

207.102.98.188 writes:

Bought the cam in May from the local VW outlet. They had to order it in so it may have been "fresh". Followed the instructions and even treated it to 1.16:1 rockers for the first 4000 miles. I'm using Bugpack VW size duals with Ti retainers and Scat lightweight lifters, so I didn't murder it like Tom J. did as posted below. The engine never went over 6500, and only above 6000 a handfull of times. 1-3 exh ground down to .15" cam lift. It only lived 5500 miles. Other than saying "Engle FK 8", it also is stamped "8 C". Anyone know if this is a batch code?

Bruce Tweddle

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Re: Anybody heard?

Wednesday, 30-Aug-2000 09:13:57

129.239.4.144 writes:

Mine lasted 7800 miles and hadn't gone away completely, but was going away. That's after having been broken in at the Bergs. The Scat lifters I had were full of pits. I'm now running a WEB cam. I now have about 4000 miles on it. I'll just have to wait and see how it goes. DB

Don Bulitta

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Flat cam syndrome. Tuesday, 29-Aug-2000 10:47:14 Message: 195.13.121.98 writes: Can anyone help with a cam choice for my motor as my Berg 317 decided to give up after 18,000 miles. The problem is before I throw another cam in(Berg 316) I just would appreciate any help as to getting that combo right. The car is driven every day with the ocasional quarter mile run when events are happening. Maybe I could use a more streetable cam but which one for my combo.Here it goes. Comp eliminator heads 46x38(flowed at 210cfm) with berg 272BR chevy springs and 1.4 CB rockers pushing manley valves. Scat flanged 86mm 94mm wiseco and Autocraft barrels 6" carrillos ,1 3/4 header with 2 1/2 muffler. all set at 10:1 comp, the car is also fuel infected... Can anybody throw any ideas into the equation. Many thanks from across the big pond. Tom J (Der Bahnstormerz)

Click here to reply

Replies:

Re: what is your spring pressure? At seat and full open? (Jim Ratto) (29-Aug-2000 10:51:31)

spring pressures. (Tom J (Der Bahnstormerz)) (29-Aug-2000 11:48:49)

While on the subject of cams going flat, what is the word on Scat cams? I have a C35, and have heard (after I put it in of course) that they go flat pretty easily. I am also using Scat lifters. (n/t) (Ed) (29-Aug-2000 11:09:21)

Off the subject but are the 94mm Wiseco piston and Autocraft barrels suitable for a daily street car as you discribe yours? I thought Cimas were the only option for a street car. Do the Autocraft barrels disipate heats as well as the Cimas? Other pros or cons please?? (n/t) (Derrick from NC) (29-Aug-2000 12:46:23)

I don't think the Wisecos have offset wrist pins, that could contribute to some noise. I don't care though, my 103mm pistons don't have an offset pin either. (n/t) (Steve Arndt) (29-Aug-2000 13:27:36)

Re: I'd like to know when the philosophy that drag race combo's were streetable became the norm.... (Rick M) (29-Aug-2000 17:51:15)

Re: Re:I HOPE WERE NOT EDUCATING OURSELF'S SO WE CAN ACT LIKE IDIOTS!!!!RICK YOU"DA MAN"BUDDY!!!MORE >>> (d.berg) (29-Aug-2000 21:33:37)

What do you rev it to? (n/t) (Bruce Tweddle) (29-Aug-2000 17:52:03)

Sounds like 18,000mi. is not too bad for that setup. Big valves need big springs, Big springs wear cams. Not much else to it... (n/t) (Ohio Tom) (29-Aug-2000 19:54:59)

Re: I agree with Tom...and what Bruce was probably going to alude to....You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Decide what you want your car to do...then build it for that. Weekend warrior...go for the ponies...Dependability...back it down a few notches and drive it a long time. (n/t) (Rick M) (29-Aug-2000 22:33:18)

Re:DO YOU GOT A LINE LOCK & HOW LONG YOU REVIN'IT???I WOULDN'T BLAME THE CAM IF YOUR BURNIN'IT DOWN!!!(GOING NUKE)MY K-10 IS 4YRS OLD NOW WITH CHEVY'S ON THE STREET 1776cc ROCKER GEO.??? (n/t) (d.berg) (30-Aug-2000 02:33:14)

Having all of the cake and eating it. (Tom J (Der Bahnstormerz)) (30-Aug-2000 05:34:37)

Re: TOO MUCH CHOCALATE ICE CREAM IS NOT GOOD!!I HAVE NEVER USED A CAM OFF THE BREAK IN MACHINE & NEVER HAD ONE GO FLAT!!!!MORE>>> (d.berg) (30-Aug-2000 22:40:52)

Tom an FK87 or eqiv is a streetable cam (n/t) (Gary Cooper) (30-Aug-2000 13:51:09)

Re: Monster springs flatten cams. Run less RPMs or less valve and you can get away with less spring... ( Mark H) (31-Aug-2000 19:30:25)

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Re: what is your spring pressure? At seat and full open? Tuesday, 29-Aug-2000 10:51:31 152.163.194.176 writes: Have you considered a steel cam? Jim Ratto

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spring pressures. Tuesday, 29-Aug-2000 11:48:49 195.13.121.98 writes: Hello Jim, when we installed the springs I had an installed height of 1" 650 thou and average of 580 lift.The springs were checked for coil bind and varied from 880 to 910thou. Clyde told me that the springs are measured and give 240lb at 1" 500 and 520lb at 1". We gave ourselves a safety margin of 140 thou from coil bind. This would therefor if the spring pressure was correct around 470lb at full lift and around 210lb at installed. I have tried a lighter spring but my 317 cam did not like it. Maybe another milder cam choice will alow me to use the springs I recieved from Roger at Heads-up. They had around 310lb at 1". I hope this helps, cheers Tom.(UK) Tom J (Der Bahnstormerz)

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Re: I'd like to know when the philosophy that drag race combo's were streetable became the norm.... Tuesday, 29-Aug-2000 17:51:15 207.254.14.18 writes: It amazes me that somewhere along the line insanity has replaced realistic thinking. The fact that you got a motor to last 18,000 miles running big cams, buzzing them at races occassionally and driving them all the time with spring pressures way beyond factory specs amazes me! We are sending the wrong message to the new generation VW enthusiasts implying regular dependability and longevity from an all out performance motor. There are a lot of factors that affect longevity that we need to clarify and be sure others understand. If you build a killer motor...don't expect the same longevity as a motor with a milder cam and spring pressures. The size of the motor is not a factor in the longevity but compression, spring pressure and came is. I know, there are those of you that are going to say you have 100,000 miles on your 94x84 12 second cars. You can fool the younger crowd but don't pass that off on the older generation that knows better. Keep the forum honest, straightforward and realistic. Otherwise people will find you out...and the credability of your comments and postings will be in question. RM Rick M

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Having all of the cake and eating it. Wednesday, 30-Aug-2000 05:34:37 195.13.121.98 writes: Thanks guys for the info and concern. I know I am pushing the boundries of reliability v's extra ponies. I think I will go for the Berg 316 (FK-89) but what lifters do you suggest I use..I rev it to 8500 and my head temp has never been above 160c.I have done a leak down test and the Auto-craft barrels are fine...Many thanks Tom UK. Tom J (Der Bahnstormerz)

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Re: TOO MUCH CHOCALATE ICE CREAM IS NOT GOOD!!I HAVE NEVER USED A CAM OFF THE BREAK IN MACHINE & NEVER HAD ONE GO FLAT!!!!MORE>>> Wednesday, 30-Aug-2000 22:40:52 64.40.41.82 writes: THERE ARE SO MANY PROCEDURES TO DO IT RIGHT!!!!! I REALLY DON'T WANNA GO INTO ALL THAT AGAIN!!!!!! & THATS JUST TO GET OIL TO IT ON START UP!!!LET ALONE GEOMETRY!!!!& MATHMATICAL COMPUTATIONS!!! "I'M HERE" TO "BUILD" THE BEST VW ENGINES IN THE WORLD!!!WERE TALKIN NASCAR!!!!(PRICE RELATIVE!!!) (STREET RELATIVE ALSO!!!) NO LEAKS!!!!I DONT WANNA TUNE EM OR DESIGN EM FOR FREE!!! I'M CLEANIN' MY DUMP UP,, WHEN I CAN STAY AWAY FROM THIS THING,,, PLUS I GOT R&D I WANT TO DO!!!MOST PEOPLE ARE AMAZED BY MY RUBE INVENTIONS!!!!I GOT A CLUTCH SYSTEM THAT WILL ASTOUND YOU!!!& AN EXAUST THAT IS SO WILD YOU'LL FREAK!!!LET ALONE THE FIRST ELECTRIC GUITAR PICK I'VE EVER SEEN!!! I WONT GO INTO DETAILS BUT WERE HOOKIN A BERG SHIFTER TO IT FOR STRING ALIGNMENT!!!W/DETENTS!!! PATEND PENDING!!!

LOTS OF PEOPLE WANT ME TO REBUILD THEIR ENGINES OVER THE PHONE,,,CAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA PAY ME,,SO THEY CAN BLOW MY DOORS OFF!!! IT'S ONE THING TO SHARE & RAISE THE BAR!!!!BUT IT MOVES FOR EVERYONE!!!AND I HOPE IT'S NOT JUST ENGINE WORKS!!BUT A WORLD THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE!!!AS FOR LIFTERS CLYDE IS ON THE FOREFRONT OF RESEARCH HE HAS TALKED TO EVERYONE ABOUT EVERYTHING!!METALURGY,CAM MAKERS, CRYO'S,COATINGS,OILS, WELDING,STEELBILLETS, DIAMOND LIFTERS,AND IF YOU PRACTICE 2+2=5 YOU'LL HAVE ANOTHER FLAT ONE!! IF YOU WANT A FK-89 ON THE STREET NO BOTTOMEND,,, WHEN THE OWNERS MANUAL (STOCK)SAYS RUN & SHIFT BRISKLEY & YOUR LUGGIN IT???LABORIN' UP ON TO THE POWERBAND. MY FIRST PASS IN THE BLACK CAR. CLOSE TO SAME CAM!!!PACKED IT ON THE WOOD IT STARTS SCREAMIN' POPPED CLUTCH AT 7200RPM & BLAAAAHHH STARTED TO BUCK SO I PUSHED CLUTCH BACK IN,,, REPACKED IT TO 8800R'S & POW!!! SPANKED THE TIRES & AWAY WE GO UP TO 9800R'S!!!TO FOLLOW STOCK INSTRUCTIONS YOU BETTER LEAVE A COUPLE CARS SPACE BEFORE YOU LEAVE A STOP IN TRAFFIC!!!'BOUT THE TOP OF 1ST START BACKIN OUT OF IT & DONT REAREND ANYONE!!!

YOU CAN RUN 1000 TO 4500 OR SO ON STREET SMOOTH!!!BUT TO GET FROM 5000 TO 8000 IT'S THE VALLEY OF DEATH!!(AT LEAST W/"BERG HEADS"!!!)(AND EVERYONE WANTS TO PICK CLYDES BRAIN)OR TRY TO COPY HIS WORK!!!THAT EGGSHAPED HOLE IS CLYDE!!NO MATTER WHO COPIED IT! IT'S CAUSE OF OVERLAP!!!SURE YOU CAN PUT A BANDAID ON YOUR ELBOW FOR A SORE ON YOUR KNEE "OR" JUST USE IT FOR WHAT IT'S DESIGN'D FOR!! DOUG BERG....PLEASE DON'T TAKE MY POST WRONG,,, BUT I'M TRYIN' TO SAY ARE YOU SURE??? AND CHECK YOUR MATH!!!!DO YOU WANNA BLOW EVERYONES DOORS OFF??? OR CRUZ THE COUNTRY W/ STRONGER THAN PORSHE POWER!!!???TORQUE V.S HORSEPOWER????GOOD LUCK!!!!AND I DO RECOMEND PRE BROKE IN CAMS,,, NOW A DAYS..& THEN IT'S STILL A CRAP SHOOT W/CHEVY SPRINGS THERE ARE THINGS YOU CAN DO TO HELP...BUT LOOK WHAT YOUR ASKIN IT TO DO!!!! 8500R'S IN 4500R'S DESIGN!!!!W/A 1/2 IN LONGER & HEAVIER PUSHROD!!!!HAVE YOU READ GENE'S BOOKS?? d.berg

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Re: Monster springs flatten cams. Run less RPMs or less valve and you can get away with less spring... Thursday, 31-Aug-2000 19:30:25 216.244.14.13 writes: I`m sure your heads make lots of power but A smaller valve head that is ported corectly could make the same. It depends on how much your heads flow now AND if you are in deed reving your motor high enough to use all that flow. A set of 48x38 heads propperly ported are good for 300HP!!! If you aren`t making that much then your heads are probably way too big. You also have a realy long rod which is usually done to make small heads or intake systems flow better at high RPMS. But since you have such huge heads/valves with this long rod ratio,your losing lots of mid range torque and most likely not reving your motor high enough no matter how high you rev it. In other words your combo is a little off. I would run 5.7 or 5.8 rods and also sell your heads and go with High flowing high velosity heads with 44x 37 or 46x37 valves and set your spring pressure down accordingly. You may well find that your car still runs the same 1/4 mile times or faster and it will drive better and last longer. An Engle fk89 is a tryed and true cam grind, I`m sure it will work fine for you. I would keep your valve lift below .620 though. Good luck, Mark H