Got Traction? Part Two Friday, 21-Jul-2000 19:51:36 Message: 209.105.35.103 writes: Some of you may remember this from last year, well I am still having traction problems, getting ready to race the Manx this weekend and would like to better the previous 11.33et. Here is the problem, the last time I raced the car it was spinning the tires in 4th gear pretty badly. I think its spinning on the insides of the tires because they look all mangled up after each run? So I had it aligned and tried to get the camber set at 5 degrees positive in the rear but the most he could get was a little over 1 degree positive camber so it looks like a trans raise is in the near future? I got the car back today and it still spins the tires in 4th gear? Listed below are some other specs that may help you: 1.58 3rd & 1.21 4th gear / 3.88 R&P 15 by 10 Centerlines N-50 Micket Thompson "I" series, less than 1 year old. Fairly mild 2276, 86C Web Cam, Street Elim 6 Fin's, 1.25 rocker arms, 42 by 37, 9.2 to 1, Terminator 62's. Now I come out of the hole at 4,200rpms and it spins a little, 2nd gear pulls hard & it pulls hard in 3rd gear but as soon as I hit 4th the tires light up threw the lights, you can see it on the video. If I advance the timing (currently at 30) will that reduce some top end power? I also have my new Comp heads but they would be pretty worthless with my current chassis problem. Is raising the the going to help me out? I am trying to catch Kurt M! Help me, Damon FCT Damon

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Replies:

Re: Heres a thought (Shane) (21-Jul-2000 19:59:46)

1/2 degree positive Damon, (Mike Gagen) (21-Jul-2000 20:09:54)

Re: Got Traction? Part Two (Dave Conklin) (21-Jul-2000 20:12:53)

My question is how well do those 62 terminators run on such a mild motor. Just curious that's all. (n/t) (Mike) (21-Jul-2000 20:36:43)

Re: you told me that thing runs 11.20s, so what is it. just wondering! (n/t) (FAT MIKE) (21-Jul-2000 20:49:36)

11.33 is at 3,200.plus ft. Corrected altitude is just under 11.20. I have no wing on the car now also and the 62's run great, they will run even better with the new heads and cam. Positive camber is set at 1.1 degrees positive camber currently. Thanks for the correction FT (n/t) (Damon) (21-Jul-2000 21:57:48)

Re: Hey Damon, you better put the wing back on before you lid that thing. (n/t) (tw) (21-Jul-2000 21:17:35)

Damon, it appears that... (Ken Swain) (21-Jul-2000 22:12:52)

Re: Got Traction? Part Two (Rich) (23-Jul-2000 05:13:58)

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Re: Heres a thought Friday, 21-Jul-2000 19:59:46 4.4.165.17 writes: Didnt you try a wing last year?how did it work? Im thinking That as you approach the big in your buggy it maybe generating lift thus unloading the suspension.It sounds pretty scary Damon. let us know Shane

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1/2 degree positive Damon, Friday, 21-Jul-2000 20:09:54 24.4.254.75 writes: .5 or point 5 positive camber. You might consider setting the rear of the car so that when it is unloaded the stops prevent the rear from going anymore than 1 degree positive when you are on the brakes. Weld a small spacer so the spring plate cannot travel to excessive positive camber. Did you really mean 5 degrees positive? You are starting to scare me, =0. So hows the ground clearance with 5 degrees positive camber? Easyier to reach and adjust your valves? ;) Mike Gagen

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Re: Got Traction? Part Two Friday, 21-Jul-2000 20:12:53 152.163.194.207 writes: I cant think of any reason why a car would break loose at the top of the track other than aero reasons like Shane said. If the back of the car is getting light at the big end, reducing power will not solve the real problem IMO. We dont want to see you go on your lid Damon =) Dave Conklin

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Damon, it appears that...

Friday, 21-Jul-2000 22:12:52

209.244.131.142 writes:

you are spinning the tires on launch whaen the rear squats down, thus exposing the insides to the most contact with the pavement. If your running 11's, then your over 100mph and with a flat bottomed, light vehicle, your going airborne. There is a guy running a buggie on the east coast here. He has a small wing mounted about 2" off the rear part of his buggy, just under the roll cage. I'd suggest trying a spoiler below the front, to break up the air- flow under the car too. Your going to have to see what works best for you. Use the video at half track to see what trhe rear is doing too.

Kghia

Ken Swain

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Traction Action, Day 2 Saturday, 22-Jul-2000 19:58:22 Message: 209.105.35.69 writes: I am making progress boys! Took of the KYB rear shocks and installed brand new stock shocks which helped quite a bit. Then I lowered the front end about 1" and adjusted my rear snubbers so they hit when the face of the tire is flat on the ground before they go into negative camber. I dropped the rear tire psi from 22 to 20. Now its just hazing the rear tires ever so slightly in 4th gear, but much better than yesterday or ever before. I gotta get this chassis figured out and get all the HP to the asphalt. Question, how much travel do you guys have on your rear snubbers before they make contact? Mine are about 1" away right now which seemed to help on the top end but I believe I lost some 1st gear bite. Thanks Damon

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Replies:

Re: Sounds like yer havin fun... ( Mark H) (22-Jul-2000 21:02:58)

Re: Re: Mark is right about rebound off snubbers! (Jim Ratto) (23-Jul-2000 01:30:37)

Re: THATS WEIRD, YOUR SPINNING THE TIRES IN 4TH, AND I AM DOING WHEELIES IN 4TH. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG. O-YEAH IM DOING NOTHING WRONG, IM DREAMING TOO! (n/t) (FAT MIKE) (23-Jul-2000 09:58:49)

HUH? (n/t) (Damon) (23-Jul-2000 16:10:04)

I had the same problem as Ratto. I put 30mm torsion bars ina nd some AVO shocks and took the snubbers OFF. I am still having traction problems under boost but it launches beautifully. 60' are 1.5's. (n/t) (Marty) (23-Jul-2000 13:57:30)

Don't know if this will help Damon but... (Greg Ward) (23-Jul-2000 21:40:00)

Re: Traction Action, Day 2 (A.j) (25-Jul-2000 03:01:01

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Re: Sounds like yer havin fun...

Saturday, 22-Jul-2000 21:02:58

216.244.12.88 writes:

Damon, It sounds like your going in the right direction. Does your frontend come up? Maybe loosen the shocking up front. My car sits about 1/4 to 1/2 inch from cut down bus snubbers. I have coilover helper springs over red KYB shocks.

And my car is just bearly positive camber. Its cheap but it does 1.5sec 60 fts. Make sure that your shocks are stiff enough to counter the rebound from hitting the snubbers. You don`t want it to bounce and unload the rear tires after you let the clutch out. Have fun,

Mark H

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Re: Re: Mark is right about rebound off snubbers! Sunday, 23-Jul-2000 01:30:37 152.163.197.61 writes: Earlier this year I ran at Sears Pt., had hoorible traction problems (2.3 60' w/ slicks) as the car was hobby horsing onto snubbers, then nose dive, unloading rear tires and goin way positive camber. You should see the video....looks like a dolphin or something. Jim Ratto

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Don't know if this will help Damon but... Sunday, 23-Jul-2000 21:40:00 144.132.206.71 writes: I tried an experiment some time ago, it was raining and obviously that had an effect, but what I did was lower the front of my beetle an inch.It didn't look funny or anything the way it was but I thought the lower the better. WRONG!! I took it around the block and hit it, sideways thru 1st,2nd and 3rd, one way then the other. Forget that, it was dangerous. I put the nose back up so it was 1 inch higher than the rear on a level floor. Spirit level and measuring accurately. Took it around the block again and although there was lots of wheelspin there was absolutely no see-sawing at all. I'm not sure about your short wheelbase but I would have thought it would be even worse if it was too low at the front.These cars really need the weight transfer to stay stable. My beetle is not a swingaxle anymore but I have snubbers that have been cut so they are only an inch high, if they were any higher it used to bottom out and just smoke up. We also had a swingaxle drag car that did similar things to what your describing, at first no-one believed the driver, till they went to the other end of the track and saw for themselves. The problem? the owner had actually put tall snubbers in and had also bashed a gudgeon pin into the center so they couldn't compress. BAD mistake. We got two new ones, cut them in half, problem fixed. So moral is make sure the height of your car is right, and that you can't bottom the suspension out solidly. Sorry about the essay, just some ideas that might help you. Greg... Greg Ward

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Re: Traction Action, Day 2 Tuesday, 25-Jul-2000 03:01:01 63.255.25.32 writes: i use the bus snubs and set the car up with 1-5 deg of positive camber.(with my 200lbs fat as* in it) A.j